DOTA 2

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Roman Totale
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Roman Totale »

Did my first ever Aegis steal today. Our team still got battered, but it was fun to do.
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Dog Pants »

Yoink!
Roman Totale
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Roman Totale »

Image
Dr. kitteny berk
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Dr. kitteny berk »

:lol:
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Dog Pants »

Has anyone ever mentioned Chris Thursden's Three Lane Highway here? It's a column he writes for PCG, and it's pretty good. A few of us have sang its praises while playing for his insights on the way people play. I found this one on teamwork radically changed how I analysed my own performance.
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Dog Pants »

We tried a couple of Proper Bot Matches last night where we made a bit of an effort to choose our positions and roles before the match, and play to them during. It worked really well, and we had two very enjoyable matches. Hopefully it wasn't too un-5punky, but I really enjoyed the teamwork. And we fucking destroyed that first medium bot game. We switched the roles round a bit too based on Johnson and Fab randoming the first two characters:

Game 1
Roman - Rubik - Support
Johnson - Lion - Offlane Carry
Pants - Lich - Offlane Support
Fab - Phantom Assassin - Main Carry
Bits - Viper - Mid

We won the game against a fairly typical bot lineup in abut 36 mins with none of them getting above level 12.

Game 2
Bits - Witch Doctor - Mid
Johnson - Vengeful Spirit - Support
Pants - Slark - Offlane Carry
Fab - Rubik - Offlane Support
Roman - Huskar - Main Carry

Looking back at the result we actually won that one in 33 mins, but I know I had to be bailed out by Bits a few times.

I read somewhere that Dota has a stepped difficulty. You improve quickly to a point, then stagnate until you change how you play, then improve again. On the stagnant parts the game gets dull, when you're improving it's awesome. Last night was definitely an improvement moment for me.
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Dog Pants »

We did the proper bot matches / coordinated team thing again last night. We flunked the second game pretty badly, but that happens sometimes. Both were pretty enjoyable nonetheless. I found myself getting self-conscious about trying to advise my lane-mate though, and then trying to explain mid-game why I was telling them how to play. Tricky to do in the middle of a frantic match, so I thought I'd try to do it here instead.

This all stems from watching The International. Not that I'm trying to replicate what the pros do on a tactical scale, none of us have anywhere close to that level of skill, nor would we without compromising our casual community thing. They also work on a strategic level though, defining their roles so they work better as a team, choosing characters who compliment each other and counter the other team. The latter takes a lot of knowledge of the meta-game, which just comes slowly through experience and only really Roman and Bits have touched on. The first part though, I think we can handle that.

I have two reasons for wanting to copy that. The easiest to explain is that it's more fun when we win, and if we all have an idea of what we're meant to be doing as individuals then we'll be more likely to do that. We're not really big into barked orders and team tactics, but we do work well as a bunch of good players who know each other well. That's the bit where I'll ask my support in a game to stop auto-attacking the creeps, and explain why. It's less the perceived Dota community "OMFG uninstall noob" and more the 5punky "shoot the dude with the shield". I probably wouldn't think anything of it if it was anyone but me saying it. Anyway, hopefully by explaining why I'm telling someone something it gives them a greater understanding of the game, which hopefully raises that feeling of 'getting' the game which is so appealing to me. All this with the caveat that I'm an OMG fucking noob myself (it's true, a guy in a pub game told me so).

There was another thing though. Once upon a time when we were all randoming it felt like an even playing field, but I really think otherwise now. When someone just staring the game randoms they're thrown into an unfamiliar character in a still unfamiliar game, and pretty much left to fend for themselves. Even worse, they could be playing a carry and laned with another carry who has been playing a lot longer. So the result is that in order to fulfil their role - i.e. kill the bad guys - they have to directly compete for kills/XP/gold with someone much more experienced, and that in turn results in them being left behind and spanked every time they get into a fight. With some structure that person will know their role - should they be getting last hits or denying creeps? They'll also, unless they're mid, have a buddy with them to give them tips and mentor them through those early, confusing as hell games.

I think it's working. I hope they don't mind me naming names, but Pnut's game has improved exponentially since he realised that his style of play made him perfect for a support. Last night Buzz was about four levels behind as an offlane carry, but he was there for every fight and in a good position - it was only the specifics of the character and a general lack of experience which had caused him to fall behind early and die a lot (which I did too in the second game last night). That's significant too, because I think post-laning phase is what we need to think about next, what we need to be doing once the teamfights and pushing starts.

The moral of the story in all this? You're probably not as bad at Dota as you think.
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Pnut »

We took a bit of a kicking in that second game last night, pretty sure most of us struggling to keep our eyes open didn't help much.
Dog Pants wrote: That's the bit where I'll ask my support in a game to stop auto-attacking the creeps, and explain why.
That's all good with me mate, when you told me last night I didn't even realize I was auto attacking. All help/advice is more than welcome (and much needed!).
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by shot2bits »

Well said pants

Also it can help to turn auto attack off in the options, it stops a lot of those frustrating moments like when you use a skill and then your hero starts chasing after the enemy trying to keep attacking them when all you wanted to do was hit them with that skill, it does mean more clicking for someone in a carry role as every time the thing you are attacking dies you need to attack a new targer but i prefer to think of it as more precise control. Obviously it all comes down to personal preference but its worth giving it a go for a game or two and see how you get on with it

On the mention of options there is a few bits you can change in there like auto casting (i think thats what it is called) where a skill that needs you to select a location just goes to where your mouse is currently pointed when you press the skills button instead of pressing the skills button, then clicking where you want it to happen so definitely worth having a quick gander in there to see if there is any bits that sound like you would be more comfortable with
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Dog Pants »

Double tap to cast on self is useful, especially for the horse staff.
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by shot2bits »

Dog Pants wrote:Double tap to cast on self is useful, especially for the horse staff.
yeah, just be careful using it with the blink dagger, it automatically blinks you towards your teams fountain which can be awkward if you are trying to initiate.
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Dog Pants »

Some brilliant 'in-game photography' from Pip Warr's rather good Dote Night column: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/08 ... ram-games/
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Dog Pants »

Another interesting Dote Night: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/11 ... r-palette/

The article is somewhat interesting, but the PDF hidden in the first paragraph with the Dota graphic design document was interesting enough to keep me on the toilet this morning.

I've used up my quotient of the word 'interesting' today.
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Roman Totale »

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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Dog Pants »

Interesting. So is this a new character then? Change to Phantom Assassin?
Roman Totale
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Roman Totale »

Looks like Oracle is going to be a new hero:

https://twitter.com/wykrhm/status/533422810303975424
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Dog Pants »

Yeah, there's an article on PCGN. New hero, Oracle, who looks to be a fairly complicated support. It's also the arcana for Phantom Assassin.
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Dog Pants »

Compendium owners got a couple of big blocks of stone in the last update, which you can carve into statues which hang around your ancient. They're pretty well done too - you can select any character, wearing any kit you own, and select any animation frame the character has. I carved Slarkey, mid-somersault and upside down, with the legend "CAUTION: WET FLOOR".
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Dog Pants »

Last night we had a great game against humans. We being Roman, Bits, MJ, Pnut and I. We lost, and it was fairly obvious we were going to lose from about the 30 minute mark, but we put up some good fights and looked like we might pull it back a couple of times. They pulled off a great ambush at the end to team wipe us an roll our mid lane down to the ancient, which stopped the end game from dragging out. It was fun, I certainly benefited from stretching my comfort zone, and I know Pnut had a revelation about his tactics. More importantly though, the other team were very chatty.
We all have a preconception about Dota being a game full of assholes, both those of us who play it and those who don't. I've been thinking that actually it's extremely rare that I meet a dickhead - the worst I normally see from opponents is "easy" at the end if they win, and in most cases that's amongst other team members saying "gg wp". Randoms on your own team isn't quite as clean a record, maybe 50% of the time they're pushy and critical, and maybe 10% they're dicks. I think in most cases they're just trying to get us to play properly because we're 5punkers, because even the pushy ones are friendly to a point. Last night's opponents immediately said hello and started joking with each other and ourselves, which continued throughout the game (like when we paused to have a piss break or when FJ fell asleep on TS). It made the game so much more fun.

Also; firstly sorry Pnut for fucking off jungling in the bot game. I should have prioritised you learning a new character for your role of choice rather than me trying to learn a new style. Secondly, we had an idea about playing little two- or three-player chillout sessions with people who kind of want to join in but find the entry barrier really high, so they can concentrate on picking up the basic survival skills and roles. If anyone's interested.
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Re: DOTA 2

Post by Pnut »

No worries mate, we were all a bit all over the place in that second game anyway from what I can remember. Also can anyone remember what my revelation about my tactics was? I was a bit drunk and very tired by the end last night and I have forgotten :dohtwo:
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